Leads: The Chris Matthews Show
Announcer: This is THE CHRIS MATTHEWS SHOW. Today...
CHRIS MATTHEWS, anchor:
Time bomb? This week the Democratic Congress heard the clock ticking and said
we must end the president's war. When will the disastrous war news finally
explode George Bush's Republican power base and force him to quit Iraq?
Prisoner of war. As a POW, John McCain stood constant in Hanoi. Will a trip
to Baghdad change his stand on Iraq?
And Republican requiem? Ronald Reagan won a generation to the GOP, but under
George Bush, voters are leaving the party in droves. Will a constant drumbeat
of scandal bury Republican hopes for the future?
Interview: Janine Zacharia of Bloomberg News, Andrea Mitchell of
NBC News, Joe Klein of Time and Andrew Sullivan of The Atlantic
Monthly discuss variety of political issues
CHRIS MATTHEWS, anchor:
Janine Zacharia covers foreign affairs for Bloomberg News. Joe Klein is a
columnist for Time. Andrea Mitchell's chief foreign affairs correspondent for
NBC News. And Andrew Sullivan is the senior editor of The Atlantic Monthly.
First up, this week, a watershed moment in the four-year-old war in Iraq. On
one side, the president's determined. Here's his commander in Iraq, General
David Petraeus, upbeat on the surge strategy.
General DAVID PETRAEUS: (March 9) I think we're doing a bit of this right
now. The short answer would be, we are making progress and that we will make
more progress as more forces and more resources arrive to do that.
MATTHEWS: But on the other side, public opinion. In the latest Gallup poll,
60 percent of voters want to set a date for withdrawal of all US troops. The
House and Senate have heard the message, and this week a real landmark. They
sent George Bush a bill forcing troops to get out next year, a bill the
president's pledged to veto. The military knows the clock is ticking. On
Monday, central command chief Admiral William Fallon said it's now or never.
Admiral WILLIAM FALLON: (From ABC's "World News with Charles Gibson"/Monday)
Time is of the essence. It's now, now, now. I just don't believe we're going
to have an opportunity, given the debate in Congress it's going to be very
difficult to be able to come back and say we got this wrong and we need
another chance.
MATTHEWS: Joe, there are three options out there right now. One, this surge
shows progress and the president gets a new mandate to continue the war. Two,
the stalemate, the one we have right now. The president can veto right now
any troop withdrawal. Or three, pressure builds, Republicans defect and
Congress tries to force another withdrawal. Joe, which is it going to be?
Mr. JOE KLEIN (Time): Well, I...
MATTHEWS: The rosy scenario. Will the surge work?
Mr. KLEIN: I don't know about the rosy scenario. Baghdad is a little bit
quieter now, mostly because the Shiite militias have stood down; they're not
fighting. But if we really want to see the future, look what happened in Tal
Afar this week. That was a city, the last place where serious
counterinsurgency tactics were tried by us and we left. This week there were
massive car bombs and then a Shiite massacre of Sunnis. You know, you need
years and years for counterinsurgency tactics to work. General Petraeus says
it. We don't have years and years.
MATTHEWS: Andrea, same question. Are we on that rosy scenario, the surge
working; are we headed to the stalemate we have now, endless back and forth,
or will the Republicans crack in their support for the president?
ANDREA MITCHELL reporting:
I think the Republicans are going to crack. What I've been told from inside
the moderate center of the Republican caucus is that the votes in favor of the
president this week--was against the president, but the Republicans holding
for the president was misleading, that they really are not in favor of the
surge, they don't believe it's going to work, that they basically said the
president has until August, until Labor Day, to--after that...
MATTHEWS: OK, let's talk about the stalemate. Let's talk about this...
MITCHELL: If it doesn't work, they're running.
MATTHEWS: Andrew, let's talk about the stalemate period we're in right now.
We look at the Constitution. It's at work. It takes two thirds to overwrite
a veto. Two thirds plus one. The Democrats clearly don't have it. What
happens for the next several months? Are we going to have this back and
forth?
Mr. ANDREW SULLIVAN (The Atlantic): I think we have a stalemate, because
I--and the reason I say that is because I just don't think it's in Bush's
character inability and mind-set to be able to say, `OK.' I mean, he is
fighting this war existentially. He thinks he's on the side of absolute good
against absolute evil, and anything that he does to surrender is surrender.
And--so he's the brittle one. He won't change. The question is whether he'll
be forced to break. But will a country want to see its commander in chief be
broken in the saddle? And I don't think so. I actually think Bush--I
personally think he's going to carry on the stalemate until 2008.
MATTHEWS: Janine.
Ms. JANINE ZACHARIA (Bloomberg): But the question is, isn't anybody going to
compromise and say, `It's OK to set benchmarks in the language, instead of
saying you must be out by September '08.' There's going to be a lot of wiggle
room for the next few months. People are telling me, this doesn't have to be
resolved, as Andrea said, until the summer. They can keep moving money.
MATTHEWS: OK, let's assume that people watching right now fall into two
categories. They want this war to end faster than the president wants it to
end or they're with him. What good are benchmarks in that debate?
Ms. ZACHARIA: Well, at least it sort of gets the Iraqis--I mean, people were
talking about politics in Washington, but what the Iraqis need to know and
what Admiral Fallon was telling the Iraqis is that there's no patience here in
Washington. You must be making some concrete progress or we're out of here.
He himself told me in an interview that he says he's telling them we need time
lines. They just don't want it written in the legislation.
MATTHEWS: All right, what about this legislation they're talking about? The
Globe broke it late this week...
MITCHELL: Right.
MATTHEWS: ...that we'll be--the Congress will say, `OK, the president can
veto any bill that--he can get his spending, but we're going to make it every
month.' Like, they're going to put him, put ankle bracelets on the president
to basically say...
Mr. KLEIN: Every three months they're...
MATTHEWS: OK, but these are periodic check backs, and which gives the
Congress a leash on the president.
MITCHELL: Well, the Democrats think that they do have the ability now to pull
that off. They've got the votes, and force him to veto it and come back to
them. But they don't want to be in a position of being told that they are
keeping the money away from the troops, so this way that they can dole it out
month by month, they think that they are in the driver's seat.
MATTHEWS: OK, moving ahead to the question about how the Republicans are
behaving. We know the Democrats are against the war, we know the president's
for it. One Republican, John McCain, is joined at the hip to President Bush
on the war, we all know that. McCain this week seemed a little less than
thrilled when he was asked how long he's willing to wait for this surge over
in Iraq to work.
Senator JOHN McCAIN: (Wednesday) We will know in some months ahead in many
ways, but, look, the only guarantee of failure is to tell the enemy, `Hey,
hang on, we're leaving.'
MATTHEWS: We put it to the Matthews Meter, 12 of our regular panelists: Will
Republicans stick with President Bush on the war until the fall? Eight say
no, Republicans won't stick with the president till September, four say they
will. Andrea, you say they won't not stick.
MITCHELL: They'll stick until September, and then they'll leave. I believe
very firmly that they're against what he is doing, but they feel that General
Petraeus has persuaded them that, for all intents and purposes, they can't
vote a withdrawal before September.
MATTHEWS: Andrew, you say they don't stick even through the summer.
Mr. SULLIVAN: I think that, generally speaking, Republicans are not going to
undercut a commander in chief in wartime. Period.
MATTHEWS: So they all--does everybody agree?
Mr. KLEIN: I...
Mr. SULLIVAN: Unless, Chris, there is complete meltdown over there. I mean,
if Iraq really does melt down...
MATTHEWS: Oh, actually--I'm talking about the way conditions are and the
violence stuff that we read about. We lost 100 people the other day over
there to violence. The Shia...
Mr. SULLIVAN: The Shia commander in chief.
Mr. KLEIN: Can I just say...
MATTHEWS: Go ahead, Joe.
Mr. KLEIN: ...there has been a really unfair time line set. Petraeus has
said you can't cut it off in August, but everybody's looking to August. And I
think...
MATTHEWS: Well, because the term `six months' got into the air.
Ms. ZACHARIA: (Unintelligible).
MITCHELL: No, but...(unintelligible).
Mr. KLEIN: Either those six months--it is absolutely...
MATTHEWS: Who came up with that? The president did, didn't he?
Mr. KLEIN: The president did, Condi did, and especially George Casey, who
doesn't like Petraeus very much did.
MITCHELL: Excuse me, Chris, but Petraeus went to the Republican caucus and
told them, `I will have real progress to you by August.' They told him, `We'll
stick with you...'
Mr. KLEIN: I don't think he did.
MITCHELL: Well, listen, I--excuse me...
Mr. KLEIN: Listen, I'm--I--OK. I...
MATTHEWS: I agree to disagree.
Mr. KLEIN: I believe that he did not, and I think this is a...
MATTHEWS: But the country--the country was led to believe that a--by the way,
the nature of a surge, the word itself is an escalation.
Ms. ZACHARIA: (Unintelligible).
MATTHEWS: It's just a short term upgrade of the effort.
Mr. KLEIN: Counterinsurgency tactics are not a surge, they're a glacier that
takes years...
MATTHEWS: Well, maybe we're giving the wrong labeling here.
Mr. KLEIN: ...to work.
MATTHEWS: Andrea, we got the label surge from the president himself.
Mr. KLEIN: What--but this is--the important thing is that this isn't going
to work.
MITCHELL: The Republicans were against the surge, but they felt that it's a
fait accompli, and that they were willing to give Petraeus until August. He
told them there will be real progress by August. They have told him at a
caucus meeting very, very recently that if there isn't real progress by
August--and real progress means not a day of violence and a day of sanity...
MATTHEWS: Let me--let me...
MITCHELL: ...that they're--that they will pull the plug.
Mr. KLEIN: The important point here is that the position that the Democrats
have taken is the American consensus position. It's the Baker-Hamilton
position.
MATTHEWS: Right.
Mr. KLEIN: It's a gradual withdrawal. And it's the smartest position. So,
I mean, we should always keep that part of it in mind.
MATTHEWS: OK. Let me ask you about the politics. There're a lot of
Republicans who watched last election in November and saw that all the
Republicans on the East Coast, practically, all lost, and not a single
Democratic incumbent to Congress lost the election. They're worried. People
like Susan Collins, people like John Sununu, all across the country. Norman
Coleman out in Minnesota. They're now watching the Republicans--or the
Democrats pick their opponent. This is the year, the year before the
election, they got to be nervous. I've watched this for years. You don't
want a strong opponent. Are these Republican members of Congress like Susan
Collins in Maine, like John Sununu up in New Hampshire, like Norman Coleman
in--are they going to start breaking with the president now or else face
really tough opponents?
Ms. ZACHARIA: It could be. I mean, if you look back at the--Collins, I
think, was among the nine who voted against the surge, right? I mean,
Republicans at the time, and those are the ones who are feeling vulnerable,
who went along this time. They don't want to be perceived as voting against
the money, but as you said, the surge to watch is a surge in violence. If the
surge in violence continues, doesn't matter how many soldiers they send over
there.
Mr. SULLIVAN: No Republican is going to be able to run away from this war.
This is a branded Republican war.
Mr. KLEIN: That's right.
Mr. SULLIVAN: In the very beginning, Bush decided...
MATTHEWS: So you're saying there's no hiding here? You can't switch?
Mr. SULLIVAN: No hiding whatsoever. And...
MATTHEWS: So you go down with the president whether you vote with him or not?
Mr. SULLIVAN: Yes. And that's why--that's why...
MATTHEWS: (Unintelligible). You don't agree with. Because Gordon Smith
doesn't think that.
MITCHELL: No, and I think that some of these others believe that by next
fall, if they have put it to Petraeus and it hasn't worked, that they can then
take a different direction.
MATTHEWS: September.
MITCHELL: But you're right--September--Norm Coleman is looking at Al Franken
in Minnesota.
MATTHEWS: Right.
MITCHELL: He's already moving to the center.
Mr. SULLIVAN: But there's a difference when you actually cut the funds off.
I mean, that point, things change altogether again.
MITCHELL: They think the American people...(unintelligible).
MATTHEWS: I want to go back to my--Joe, you can go back to some logic here.
I talked about three possibilities. One, the president wins. He wins the
argument, the war looks good, everybody sort of clams up. Two, we continue
with this back and forth stalemate of the president against the Democratic
Congress with nobody winning. And three, the Republican coalition cracks
around the president. We all agree--or you all agree that by September, the
coalition holds, the stalemate holds, right? The stalemate holds through
September.
Ms. ZACHARIA: And the summer. And the summer.
Mr. KLEIN: The stalemate then it cracks.
MATTHEWS: And then what happens then?
Ms. ZACHARIA: I think...
Mr. KLEIN: The stalemate then it cracks. I think it...
MITCHELL: I think it cracks in the fall.
Mr. SULLIVAN: I don't believe--I just don't believe...
MATTHEWS: You actually--you don't think there'll be a crack even in the fall?
Mr. SULLIVAN: No, I think there may be a crack, but I think the president
will not respond to it.
Mr. KLEIN: No, he won't.
Mr. SULLIVAN: I think this president is going to go down with this. He's
long...
MATTHEWS: It's all he needs, is nice and bitter. Anybody needs the third of
the vote to hold the veto.
Ms. ZACHARIA: (Unintelligible).
Mr. SULLIVAN: He's more intransigent than Nixon, much more.
MATTHEWS: Whoa.
MITCHELL: I think it's--I think if this does not work by the fall, the
Republicans crack and he gets overridden.
MATTHEWS: Two thirds plus one.
Mr. KLEIN: I don't think he gets overridden, but I--I don't think he...
Ms. ZACHARIA: Nor do I.
Mr. SULLIVAN: I don't think he gets overridden.
Ms. ZACHARIA: And Foley--and Foley.
Mr. KLEIN: I don't think he gets overridden. He should, but he's not going
to.
Mr. SULLIVAN: He's going--he's going--this is him. He's going down in
history, he's not going to change.
MATTHEWS: By the--by the--by the way, who's winning the argument with the
public? Maybe you've already answered the war argument. Are the Democrats in
Congress winning the argument or is the president winning, with the public?
Ms. ZACHARIA: The Democrats are winning the argument, but we can't go on
like this.
MATTHEWS: Joe?
Mr. KLEIN: The Democrats are.
MITCHELL: The Democrats.
Mr. SULLIVAN: The country is.
MATTHEWS: Before we go to break, earlier this week, Bill Clinton shared some
of his TV favorites with the Hollywood Reporter. As Bill put it, quote, "My
wife is away, so I'm home alone a lot. I'm particularly grateful to the TV
Land channel for giving me something to do at night." Hm. At the top of
Bill's list were "I Love Lucy" reruns. So what is it about "I Love Lucy" that
appeals to this stay-at-husband? Does Bill love Lucy because he is Lucy?
Think about it. Ricky, like Hillary, is hard at work, bringing home the
bacon. And Lucy, like Bill, is always trying to get in the act. And Ricky's
always catching them at it.
(Clip from Paramount Pictures' "I Love Lucy")
MATTHEWS: So if you're following me here, take a look at how Hillary--I mean
Ricky--would've settled an argument with Bill--Lucy--back in the '50s.
(Clip from Paramount Pictures' "I Love Lucy")
MATTHEWS: So, Joe, you're an expert on Clinton, the number one expert. What
is it about him that makes him love "I Love Lucy"? And by the way, I don't
think Hillary ever spanks Bill, but I'm just guessing.
Mr. KLEIN: He loves everything and everyone. I mean, I think that he's
a--this is a guy who loves taking in information.
MATTHEWS: Hm.
Mr. KLEIN: And I'm sure that while he's watching "I Love Lucy" he's reading
a mystery and doing a crossword puzzle, and he's also on the phone.
MATTHEWS: So he's sitting around like Lucille Ball, killing time and watching
television all the time, right?
We'll be right back. By the way, Ronald Reagan built the Republican city on a
hill. Has George Bush led the party of Reagan off the cliff? Plus, scoops
and predictions right out of the notebooks of these top reporters. TELL ME
SOMETHING I DON'T KNOW. Be right back.
(Announcements)
President GEORGE W. BUSH: (Wednesday) A year ago, my approval rating was in
the 30s, my nominee for the Supreme Court had just withdrawn and my vice
president had shot someone. Ah, those were the good old days.
MATTHEWS: Welcome back. That was President Bush having a laugh at
Wednesday's Radio and TV Correspondents' Dinner, but these days, most
Republicans aren't laughing. And a stark failure in Iraq and allegations of
corruption and incompetence have led to a collapse of the GOP. Take a look at
these poll numbers; here's the Pew poll in 2002: 43 percent of Americans back
then identified themselves as Republican. Forty-three percent identified
ourselves as Democrats. Look at this, just right there, even Steven. Now,
just five years later, 50 percent of the American people call themselves
Democrats and only 35 call themselves Republicans. Now that they're in power,
by the way, Democrats have got to keep the pressure on this administration.
Andrew, it ain't the Democrats that've been doing a great job. There's
something wrong with the job Republicans have been perceived to be doing.
Mr. SULLIVAN: There are two things. The first is the war, and the second is
the culture. The war, Republicans are always associated with national defense
and national security, it's their strongest point. They've lost a war in the
most horrifying way, through incompetence. That just kills you for people who
want to be Republicans.
MATTHEWS: Yeah.
Mr. SULLIVAN: Secondly, the culture. They come off, I don't even think they
realize it, as the nasty party, the intolerant party, the party that isn't
interested in bringing people into the fold.
MATTHEWS: Are you sure that's it, or is it incompetence...(unintelligible).
Mr. SULLIVAN: I go to campuses today, and I was--I was a campus
conservative, OK? And it was kind of cool and fun when Reagan was around to
be a minority, sure, but having fun and on the cultural wave.
MATTHEWS: And now?
Mr. SULLIVAN: Now it is cultural death to be young and Republican.
MATTHEWS: Let me--let me ask you about the competency question.
Mr. KLEIN: (Unintelligible).
Mr. SULLIVAN: Look at "The Daily Show" and "Colbert."
MATTHEWS: Let me go to this whole thing.
Mr. SULLIVAN: They define the next generation.
MATTHEWS: OK, I can argue--you can argue about the changes in the way we feel
about things, but just watching this as an independent, middle-of-the-road
voter would do. You've got the Katrina disaster where the president seemed to
be out to lunch. You've got the Harriet Miers for the Supreme Court. It's
these little screw ups. Then you've got this thing with Gonzales that just
seems--not the most important thing in the world, but just screwed up.
Mr. KLEIN: What about Walter Reed, for God's sakes?
MATTHEWS: Yeah.
Mr. KLEIN: Look, this is the raggedy end of a pendulum swing that began with
Ronald Reagan saying that government is part of the problem, not part of the
solution. If you believe this, as most Republicans do, you wind up governing
without care and precision. You wind up going into Iraq with no preparation.
You wind up putting Browny in charge of FEMA. You have seen this time and
time and time again, and the--it's part of the natural balance of politics.
MATTHEWS: Is this headed this way for good for the rest of this term, or can
he turn it around? Reagan turned things around in the end, so did Clinton.
Ms. ZACHARIA: I don't see how he turns it around, because he can't seem to
get it together either domestically or foreign policy. It's not just the war
in Iraq. If you go looking, the whole Middle East.
MATTHEWS: OK. Bright spot, he brings in Gates, dumps Rumsfeld. They clean
up Walter Reed. He could still bring in people like--remember Howard Baker
came in for Reagan? It works--and Ken Duberstein--it works.
MITCHELL: Howard Baker, Ken Duberstein. Bob Gates was a master stroke,
because he comes in, he's out of the country when Walter Reed breaks, and he
says fire them all.
MATTHEWS: OK, why doesn't he do that across the board? Why doesn't he get
rid of his Brownies and his Scooters and all the other--Gonzales and all that?
MITCHELL: Because this a president, because he hangs...
Mr. KLEIN: They don't believe in it.
MITCHELL: He hangs onto people longer than he should. He did get rid of
certain people.
MATTHEWS: OK, are these real appointments or is this cronyism? Is bringing
in Gonzales, an old pal, bringing in Harriet Miers, an old pal, even, are
these just--is this just cronyism?
MITCHELL: This gets to incompetence, also. This gets to the Katrina, what
Joe was just discussing, all of those issues of incompetence. This is not
having high standards, and it is a combination of incompetence and cronyism.
It's not having the best people.
Mr. KLEIN: And ideology.
Mr. SULLIVAN: It's not--I disagree with Joe on this point. It is,
yes--conservatives really should be about small government. When
conservatives became for big government, they don't like it, they don't know
how to run it, and they screw it up. And that's what's happened. And it's
time for the Democrats, obviously, to come back in.
MITCHELL: You know, Richard Nixon gave environment...
Mr. KLEIN: Even small government has to be run well.
Mr. SULLIVAN: Yes! I would like--but I'd like a lot smaller for it to be
done better.
MITCHELL: You know, Richard Nixon did-- Richard Nixon did--Richard Nixon did
environmental things with Bill Ruckelshaus. There are conservative principles
for governing, for managing things for the...
MATTHEWS: I know. You can govern smaller and better. We put it to the
Matthews Meter, 12 of our regular panelists, has President Bush hurt the
Republican Party as much as Ronald Reagan helped it? This one wasn't close.
Nine to three, the meter says yes, Bush has lost everything Reagan has gained.
Is that a fair shot? It looks like it.
Mr. KLEIN: I just think it's part of the natural evolution of politics.
(Unintelligible).
Mr. SULLIVAN: (Unintelligible).
MATTHEWS: OK, let's talk about the election coming up, and I've seen some of
the betting odds on this, but let's all do it fresh start here. Ignoring who
the candidates are if we can, are the Republicans the underdogs now in the
next year presidential election?
Ms. ZACHARIA: Yes.
Mr. KLEIN: Not according to the recent Time poll, which had the Republicans
beating the Democrats.
MITCHELL: Yes.
Mr. SULLIVAN: Not if Hillary's the nominee.
MATTHEWS: OK.
Ms. ZACHARIA: We got to...
MATTHEWS: We can do a whole show on that, and we will.
I'll be right back with scoops and predictions right out of the notebooks of
these top reporters. TELL ME SOMETHING I DON'T KNOW.
(Announcements)
MATTHEWS: Welcome back. Janine, TELL ME SOMETHING I DON'T KNOW.
Ms. ZACHARIA: Ignore the aircraft carriers in the Gulf, all the bluster
about a possible conflict with Iran. US military's saying we cannot do this
now.
MATTHEWS: Hm. Joe.
Mr. KLEIN: In Israel right now, there is an awful lot of
sentiment--especially in the defense establishment, not to talk to the Saudis,
but to talk to the Syrians. And President Bashar al-Assad wants to talk to
the Israelis. Why isn't this going to happen? Because the United States
doesn't want the Israelis to talk to the Syrians. Members of our foreign
policy establishment have been telling the Israelis not to go there.
MATTHEWS: So we're to the right of Israel on their own neighbors?
Mr. KLEIN: Yes.
MITCHELL: Fred Thompson...
MATTHEWS: Andrea.
MITCHELL: ...seriously thinking about a run. Big downside for him, he'd have
to give up his succession to be the new Paul Harvey on the radio, the
permanent successor. And also, within the Republican caucus, real anger at
Chuck Hagel, even among the anti-war Republicans. They think that this vote,
this week, shows that he's running as an Independent.
MATTHEWS: If Fred goes in, he's number one in two weeks.
Mr. SULLIVAN: I think when the first quarter numbers for money come out,
Hillary's overwhelming advantage is going to be kind of stunning.
MATTHEWS: Fifty million.
Mr. SULLIVAN: It's going--it's going to be a real shocker.
MATTHEWS: I'll be right back with this week's big question. A report that
John McCain had discussions back in 2001 with Democrats about switching
parties, becoming a Democrat. We'll be right back with the answer. How much
will this hurt him now? Stick around.
(Announcements)
MATTHEWS: Welcome back. A big question this week, a new report in The Hill
newspaper that John McCain talked to Democrats in 2001 about switching parties
and joining them. Our question: How much will this hurt him now? This
little whiff story.
Ms. ZACHARIA: It's not going to hurt him. Six years ago. He's got more
issues with his Iraq position than that.
MATTHEWS: Joe:
Mr. KLEIN: A lot of Republicans already think that he ran against the party
in 2000. This isn't going to help.
MATTHEWS: Andrea:
MITCHELL: A lot of Republicans think that he was a Democrat in 2000.
MATTHEWS: So it's already discounted.
MITCHELL: And it's already discounted. But it hurts some of his base as long
as the opponents within the Republican Party keep flogging him.
MATTHEWS: Andrew Sullivan:
Mr. SULLIVAN: Brutal at this point. This is exactly what he doesn't want to
hear. Exactly.
MATTHEWS: And he says he went to a meeting, found out what it was about and
didn't participate, but there's the John Weaver problem, his key political
kick was involved in these conversations...
MITCHELL: Plausible deniability.
MATTHEWS: ...with former--Tom Downing. It is a whiff and it is a problem.
Mr. SULLIVAN: Every Republican wants to hate him.
MATTHEWS: Thanks for a great round table. Janine Zacharia, Joe Klein, Andrea
Mitchell and Andrew Sullivan.
