CHRIS MATTHEWS, host:
Throwing down the gauntlet. Barack Obama, armed with the Democratic nomination, challenges John McCain personally. On his historic night, he throws back every Republican charge and dares his
rival on judgment, temperament and who owns the failures of the last eight
years.
Back to school. The Republicans have their convention. Now that it's Labor
Day, the campaigning turns serious. With only nine weeks left, is Obama back
on track to win the election that could still be his to lose?
And finally, north to Alaska? How far did John McCain have to go to find a
vice president? Beyond the lower 48. Is Governor Palin too much the rookie,
or will she bring home the base?
Hi, I'm Chris Matthews. Welcome to the show.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Interview: Norah O'Donnell of MSNBC, Clarence Page of the Chicago
Tribune, Elisabeth Bumiller of The New York Times and Howard
Fineman of Newsweek on Barack Obama's acceptance speech at the
Democratic National Convention and Sarah Palin as McCain's vice
presidential pick; Tell Me Something I Don't Know; Big Question
CHRIS MATTHEWS, host:
Norah O'Donnell's chief Washington correspondent for MSNBC. Clarence Page
writes a column for the Chicago Tribune. Elisabeth Bumiller's covering the
campaign for The New York Times. And Howard Fineman is senior Washington
correspondent for Newsweek.
First up, we're heading into the final stretch right now. After Labor Day,
this historic campaign grows deadly serious. The Democrats just pulled off a
smashing convention in Denver. Barack Obama shined in front of the 85,000 who
witnessed that enormous outdoor finale and the 40 million-plus who saw it on
TV. That's more than watched the Olympics opening night! Now it's the
Republicans' turn. John McCain's hoping his answer to Joe Biden, Alaska
Governor Sarah Palin, will give him a boost. McCain will need it. Through
his relentless attacks this summer, McCain had gotten Obama's lead down to one
or two points. But that was before that jamboree in Denver and Obama's
speech.
Senator BARACK OBAMA: (Thursday) This election is our chance to keep, in the
21st century, the American promise alive, because next week in Minnesota the
same party that brought you two terms of George Bush and Dick Cheney will ask
this country for a third. And we are here--we are here because we love this
country too much to let the next four years look just like the last eight. On
November 4th--on November 4th, we must stand up and say, eight is enough.
MATTHEWS: Howard, he couldn't have had a bigger night. The big question, of
course, is impact. How long's the glow going to last from that amazing event
out there?
Mr. HOWARD FINEMAN (Newsweek Senior Washington Correspondent): Well, he said
during the speech, `This campaign is not about me, it's about you,' and
everybody cheered. But that speech was about him, and the whole setting was
about him. I was sitting on the 50-yard line there in Invesco Field. It was
an unbelievably sweeping and beautiful and powerful scene, and the whole
message of that speech, both the words and the tableaux was `I am strong
enough to lead. I can be president. I can be commander in chief. Look at me
commanding this crowd, commanding this television audience.' And taking it to
John McCain, essentially saying to John McCain, `Come down into this arena.'
It looked for all the world not like a Greek temple but the Roman Colosseum.
MATTHEWS: Yeah.
Mr. FINEMAN: `Come down into this arena, John McCain. I can be president.
I can be commander in chief. Let's see if you can, too.' It was brilliantly
done.
MATTHEWS: Right.
Mr. FINEMAN: One word: strength. Strength.
MATTHEWS: Interesting.
Norah, I wouldn't have been--he wouldn't have gotten to that wonderful
Thursday night, which was a success, most people believe, if it hadn't--if it
hadn't been the for the relationship with the Clintons. I was taken--I don't
know if you were, I wanted your reactions as a reporter--Hillary Clinton's
speech to me was box office. I thought Bill was solid, too, but Hillary had
something bigger.
Ms. NORAH O'DONNELL (MSNBC Chief Washington Correspondent): Listen, we began
the week talking about the Clintons' psychodrama.
MATTHEWS: Yeah.
Ms. O'DONNELL: Whether Hillary Clinton would say enough to sort of end...
MATTHEWS: Yeah.
Ms. O'DONNELL: ...this disunity in the party, whether Bill Clinton would
fully embrace. There was a Clinton communion, where Hillary Clinton made
clear she supports Barack Obama, and Bill Clinton gave a very strong embrace
of Barack Obama. And then in that final speech--did you note how many times
Barack Obama mentioned the Clintons? Almost three times talking about the
record of Bill Clinton. That's the kind of attention and adoration that Bill
Clinton has wanted and not gotten thus far.
MATTHEWS: We're going to play that tape right now. Obama made a big play for
the Clintonites.
Sen. OBAMA: (Thursday) Let me express my thanks to the historic slate of
candidates who accompanied me on this journey, and especially the one who
traveled the farthest, a champion for working Americans and an inspiration to
my daughters and yours, Hillary Rodham Clinton.
MATTHEWS: Clarence, that's the payload, isn't it? If he can deliver what
Hillary created, that 18 million vote support base, if he can get the lion's
share of that...
Mr. CLARENCE PAGE (Chicago Tribune Columnist): Right.
MATTHEWS: ...he's on his way, isn't he?
Mr. PAGE: Right, and her support base was so white and working class--I
might as well say it--and older--in other words, those three groups that he's
had the most difficulty reaching, and those who work for a living...
MATTHEWS: Right.
Mr. PAGE: ...as we--as we used to say in my hometown, and thus haven't had
time to read the publications and all the represented here, and now are
getting engaged in this kind of, is wondering who is this Barack Obama.
MATTHEWS: Let me ask you about that, Elisabeth, because you've been reporting
late this week about the people who are definitely holdouts, who don't like
the Democratic Party now because of the fact Hillary lost.
Ms. ELISABETH BUMILLER (The New York Times): The McCain campaign is hoping
to get--to get some of those people, especially women. We've talked to women
who've said they love Sarah Palin, the new--the new candidate on the--on the
McCain ticket, and the McCain campaign is gambling that--they say there's 8
percent of people who have a pro--you know, Sarah Palin is opposed to abortion
rights, OK, which should mean--so theoretically should alienate a lot of
women. However, if you look at the numbers, there's about 8 percent of the
people in this country who have a--have a--have a litmus test on choice. OK,
they're not going to vote for a candidate who's against. There's a larger
number who have a litmus test on they won't fray--they won't vote for a
candidate who is a, you know, in favor of abortion rights. But the great
percentage, 80 percent--for them, the McCain campaign feels, it's not a big
issue, and they are interested now in using Sarah Palin in that way.
MATTHEWS: And they believe that women who are recalcitrant, who are angry at
the Democratic Party because the--of what they see as bad treatment of
Hillary, will--that will be their voting issue, not abortion.
Ms. BUMILLER: But also, not just bad treatment of Hillary, just the
excitement of having a woman on the ticket is...
MATTHEWS: (Unintelligible)...positively.
Ms. BUMILLER: Huge dashed hopes aside...
MATTHEWS: OK. Here's what--here's what shatters the sort of anecdotal
reporting we're getting from you, and I've have had...
Ms. BUMILLER: Right.
MATTHEWS: ...met people like that, too. Right now, in the latest Washington
Post/ABC Poll, Barack Obama is getting women voters to support him at a rate
of 55 percent to 37 percent. That is a huge advantage among all women. Just
to put it in perspective, John Kerry only got 51 percent of the women back.
It wasn't a big gender gap back in '04. So it seems like, box office size,
he's winning this case among women.
Mr. FINEMAN: Yeah, and that's what the speech at Invesco Field was all
about, Chris. Obama doesn't have to worry so much about women. He does, of
course, they're the majority of the electorate, and we've been discussing
that. But that speech in that football field in front of that crowd with that
strength and that challenge to McCain was about male voters more than female
voters.
MATTHEWS: Hm.
Mr. FINEMAN: He's defending his perimeter. He thinks he's going to win on
the economy; that's not going to be a problem. He thinks he's going to win
female voters. That's not going to be a problem. He's weak spot is commander
in chief and ready to lead. David Axelrod, the chief message strategist of
the campaign--I saw him in the tunnel of the--of the stadium after that, and I
said, `Well, what do you think?' And he said, `That was our pre-buttal.'
Meaning, `That was our preemptive rebuttal to the coming Republican
convention.'
MATTHEWS: OK. The way that he sort of threw back the Republican charges. He
said, `I'm willing to take on John McCain on everything he throws at me.' Is
this where this is going to go, and what's he going to do about McCain now?
He's got to throw it back at him again.
Ms. BUMILLER: Well, now McCain--you're going to see very, very quick--you're
already seeing it--sharp pivot from `the candidate with experience' to `I'm
the candidate of change, as well. I'm the reformer.' The change argument--the
experience argument was not working. It didn't work for Hillary Clinton. In
this election, voters are going to go with change rather than the custodian of
the status quo, the wise old custodian. So look--here--look what happened on
Friday. Sarah Palin. You know, `She's a reformer like I am. She stood up to
the entrenched interests, the corruption in Alaska,' and off we go. It's what
they--it's what they're going to run with.
MATTHEWS: So the question, Clarence--two questions. Are the Republicans
giving up on making this all about Obama? Are they going to compete for the
change vote positively? And if so...
Mr. PAGE: (Unintelligible). What a delightful notion.
MATTHEWS: (Unintelligible). That gets complicated enough.
Mr. PAGE: Quaint notion, turning positive on the campaign. I mean, Chris,
it's going to be a bloodbath, we know that, for the next two months.
MATTHEWS: Right.
Mr. PAGE: And they're going to go after Obama with everything they can, but
they want the race to be about Obama. That is, `Obama's got to prove himself.
You know who John McCain is. You know he's a maverick. You know'--etc. etc.
Ms. O'DONNELL: It's actually--the 2000 campaign, McCain ran as the reformer
with results. Remember?
Mr. PAGE: Right.
Ms. O'DONNELL: And actually Bush stole that phrase...
Mr. FINEMAN: Bush ran it.
Ms. BUMILLER: Right.
Ms. O'DONNELL: ...from him and that's how Bush ended up winning in South
Carolina. McCain wants to get back to those roots. He's trying to recapture
the maverick label.
MATTHEWS: OK. Before we break--this is the fun part of the show--conventions
may not have the suspense they used to, but the boosterism by those state
delegations hasn't died. You know, `Wisconsin, the Dairy State, casts 22 and
a half votes for'--well, for us old folks, it echoed the days of yesteryear.
(Begin clips from Wednesday)
Unidentified Woman #1: Louisiana, the home of gumbo, jambalaya, crawfish
pie...
Unidentified Woman #2: We, the empire state of the South, the jewel of the
South, the great state of Georgia, is proud to cast 18 votes for Senator
Hillary Clinton and 82 votes for the next president of the United States,
Senator Barack Obama.
Unidentified Woman #3: The great state of California, home to the most
dynamic, diverse and talented people...
Unidentified Man #1: Idaho, the Gem State, where the sun first touches the
mountains, birthplace of Sacajawea, proud home of the Kutenai, Coeur d'Alene,
Nez Perce, Shoshone-Bannock and Paiute tribes...
Unidentified Woman #4: Kentucky...
Unidentified Man #2: On the celebration and anniversary and bicentennial of
that great American Abraham Lincoln, proudly casts 36 votes for the next
president of the United States, Barack Obama.
Unidentified Man #3: The sun comes up in Maine first in the nation, and we
feel very honored to be--to have that as our singular whatever--privilege.
Unidentified Man #4: Minnesota, which helped launch the Draft Obama movement;
and Minnesota, where hundreds of volunteers and citizens came out in a
record-setting caucus, now stands ready to serve a president who can bring out
the very best in every American. We proudly cast eight votes for Hillary
Clinton and 78 votes for the next president of the United States, Barack
Obama!
(End of clips)
MATTHEWS: Well, all the fun stopped in New York, of course, once Hillary
Clinton moved to suspend the roll call, so we have to wait four more years to
hear from states on the rest of the alphabet. Wisconsin, who moved my cheese?
When we come back, can a rookie governor bring home John McCain? Can Sarah
Palin be the smart move in this campaign? Plus, scoops and predictions right
out of the notebooks of these top reporters. TELL ME SOMETHING I DON'T KNOW.
Be right back.
***
MATTHEWS: Welcome back.
John McCain passed over likely candidates and even some longtime friends when
he chose Alaskan Governor Sarah Palin as his running mate. The two had only
met once before this week, but she's vowing to help get him into the White
House.
Governor SARAH PALIN: (Friday) I'm going to take our campaign to every part
of our country, and our message of reform to every voter of every background
in every political party, or no party at all. If you want change in
Washington, if you hope for a better America, then we're asking for your vote
on the 4th of November. My fellow Americans, come join our cause.
MATTHEWS: Is she a winner? We asked The Matthews Meter, 12 of our regulars,
is Governor Palin a smart pick for McCain? I hate these. It's a split
decision. Six say yes, Palin's a smart pick; six say no. Howard, you're a
yes.
Mr. FINEMAN: Yeah, I said yes, partly because I have to cover the meat--the
convention--the Republican convention. And this is fun. This is interesting.
It's out of the box. It's daring. She cements the conservatives, and I--the
conservative grass roots, they've loved her. The talk show hosts have been
talking her up. I first heard about her via some talk show hosts I know. So
she gives McCain what he didn't have in the conservative roots.
MATTHEWS: OK.
Mr. FINEMAN: Sure, it's risky, but he had to shake things up, and as his top
advisor told me, this is a maverick picking a maverick.
MATTHEWS: One question, just to set this up. The big case that McCain was
making against Barack Obama was lack of experience. First term US senator.
No real track record in world events. Here's a person with none.
Ms. O'DONNELL: That's right. She's only 44...
MATTHEWS: No world events passed.
Ms. O'DONNELL: That's right, in fact, she got her passport in 2007 to make a
trip overseas to Kuwait because she's the head of the National Guard as the
governor of Alaska.
MATTHEWS: Yeah.
Ms. O'DONNELL: She does not have any world experience. That is going to be
a very interesting debate with this governor of Alaska.
MATTHEWS: But you voted yes.
Ms. O'DONNELL: I did vote yes. Why? Because it returns buzz to the
campaign. People who had kind of been bored by John McCain say, `Wait a
minute! Let me take a look. Who is this rising star? Who is this very
impressive woman?'
MATTHEWS: So better than Pawlenty?
Ms. O'DONNELL: Yes. `Who is this hockey mom with five kids, one that's
going to Iraq on September 11th?' Her youngest...
MATTHEWS: OK.
Ms. O'DONNELL: ...that has Down syndrome. This is an interesting...
MATTHEWS: Sure is.
Ms. O'DONNELL: ...woman. All the headlines in the papers were `maverick
chooses maverick.' McCain couldn't be happier with the headlines the day
after.
MATTHEWS: Clarence, demur.
Mr. PAGE: I was tempted to vote like you and Howard because I, too, am a
journalist who sees a great story here, boy, you know. But I'm saying, what,
are we kidding? I mean, I think, you know, she's a delightful woman. I'm
sure she's a fine governor for Alaska, but at least Obama had a national
presence before the first primary started, you know. She comes from nowhere
at this point...
MATTHEWS: OK, here's what I think. I think--I think...
Mr. PAGE: I think it's going to wear thin after awhile.
MATTHEWS: OK.
Mr. PAGE: People are going to say, `What did we do?' a Sunday morning after
effect.
MATTHEWS: OK. How'd it happen? Who pushed it?
Ms. BUMILLER: McCain. I mean, there was nobody in the inner circle of, I
would say, five men who advised McCain very closely every day who was--who was
a strong advocate for her. Nobody was a naysayer, but nobody was big on this
pick.
MATTHEWS: What clicked with her, with him?
Ms. BUMILLER: He liked her. Obviously she's extremely personable and
charismatic, but what clicked was that this--he needed to shake something up.
He wanted--he desperately wanted the maverick label back. He didn't like--he
hated running as, again, this wise old man of Washington, despised that.
That's not...
MATTHEWS: Yeah.
Ms. BUMILLER: ...how he sees himself.
MATTHEWS: I think the fact that...
Ms. BUMILLER: ...and I think--also in the end there was--there were
negatives and positives about every of the--every of the--of the finalists.
You know, there was about five or six finalists at the end. We know who they
all were: Pawlenty, Romney, Lieberman, Ridge, one other or two others.
Pawlenty, the argument with Pawlenty--I mean, he was a favorite of some of
the--of the inner circle. The argument against him was that he also had no
foreign policy or national security experience. At least Palin was
interesting and could shake things up. Pawlenty would have been...
Ms. O'DONNELL: And...
Mr. FINEMAN: Chris...
Ms. BUMILLER: ...more of the same.
Mr. FINEMAN: Can--yeah, I got to say--well, I can't say for sure yet,
because I'm trying to report this out, too--there's no question in my mind
that Karl Rove, who is not in the inner circle really, but who is influential
and who is a conduit from the conservative base, along with Charlie Black, who
is in the inner circle...
Ms. O'DONNELL: Right.
Mr. FINEMAN: ...knew that this woman was gangbusters with the grass roots...
Ms. BUMILLER: Right.
Mr. FINEMAN: And by the process of elimination--you couldn't have Tom Ridge
or Joe Lieberman because all the conservatives said no way...
MATTHEWS: (Unintelligible).
Ms. O'DONNELL: And if a senior Republican...
Mr. FINEMAN: The others were boring...
MATTHEWS: Got to move now with a wraparound or rip-around question here.
We've seen other big issues of vice presidencies disappear. Quayle was not a
big issue by Election Day. Will she, her candidacy, be a big issue by
Election Day, one way or the other?
Ms. O'DONNELL: Yes. And she helps energize the base. As one senior
Republican told me, evangelicals went from doing high-fives to hallelujahs
when they--when he chose her.
MATTHEWS: OK. Will she be an issue or not in November?
Mr. PAGE: She'll be an issue both ways, positively and negatively.
MATTHEWS: Significant?
Mr. PAGE: Right. Right.
MATTHEWS: Not an also-ran issue here?
Ms. BUMILLER: I'm not sure. Everybody votes for the president. History has
shown that who the vice president is doesn't matter in the election. Look at
Dan Quayle. And I--you know...
MATTHEWS: Fade or stay?
Mr. FINEMAN: No, no. It's going to matter because John McCain is 72 and has
had health problems. She's 44 and has no foreign policy experience. It's
going to be issue, and all the way through. But Joe Biden in the debate
better be careful not to overdo it, because this is a tough customer. She's a
good arguer and debater.
MATTHEWS: I think he--I think he'll be aware of that.
Mr. FINEMAN: Right. Right.
MATTHEWS: He can't push it too hard.
I'll be right back with scoops and predictions right out of the notebooks of
these top reporters, TELL ME SOMETHING I DON'T KNOW. Be right back.
***
MATTHEWS: Welcome back.
Norah, TELL ME SOMETHING I DON'T KNOW.
Ms. O'DONNELL: Governor Sarah Palin may not have the experience to be vice
president, but she brought buzz to the campaign, and she brought money. The
McCain campaign raised $4 million online in a single day. That's six times
what they've done any other time.
MATTHEWS: Wow. Clarence?
Mr. PAGE: Well, the big buzz back in Illinois is the Illinois delegation met
at the Democratic convention in order to pull themself together to help Obama
around the rest of the country, and we got a lot of feuding in the--among
Illinois Democrats. Jesse Jackson Jr., the congressman, started what we call
now the hugfest, where he hugged one of his rivals and said, `Anybody else
here doesn't get along with me?' Mayor Daley got up, went over and hugged
Jesse Jackson.
MATTHEWS: I'll be.
Mr. PAGE: Jesse turned around and he hugged Congressman Bobby Rush, ex-Black
Panther who ran against--Obama ran against. This big hugfest broke out. How
long this will last depends upon how quickly the long knives can come out
again.
MATTHEWS: Are the Cubs hugging the White Sox yet?
Mr. PAGE: That will be next. That will be next.
MATTHEWS: Elisabeth?
Ms. BUMILLER: McCain seriously considered putting Lieberman on the ticket,
Senator Lieberman, who supports abortion rights, who's a former Democrat. It
would have blown up the Republican convention. His chief advocate was
McCain's really good friend Lindsey Graham, senator from South Carolina.
Lindsey pushed it hard, hard, hard, to the point where the other people in the
inner circle were tired of it.
Mr. FINEMAN: The hard liners on abortion, pro and con, are only a small part
of the electorate, but they're an important one, and they're a way to raise
money and go on the attack. And you can expect to see now abortion rights
supporters mounting independent expenditure campaigns to highlight Sarah
Palin's record on abortion.
MATTHEWS: And I'll be right back now with this week's BIG QUESTION. Will
John McCain's temperament be an issue in the fall campaign?
***
MATTHEWS: Welcome back.
Barack Obama had a bunch of zingers on Thursday night, but this one was the
sharpest.
Sen. OBAMA: (Thursday) If John McCain wants to have a debate about who has
the temperament and judgment to serve as the next commander in the chief,
that's a debate I'm ready to have.
MATTHEWS: Wow, that could have been a reference to the cloakroom buzz over
John McCain's temper, which brings us to this week's BIG QUESTION. Will
McCain's temperament be an issue in the fall campaign? Norah O'Donnell?
Ms. O'DONNELL: You bet it will be. The Senate majority leader Harry Reid
always talks about it a lot, that McCain has an anger problem. And they're
now going to talk about judgment. Why would John McCain, 72 years old,
when--choose someone who's got to be a heartbeat away from the presidency who
has no--is--in their words, zero foreign policy experience.
MATTHEWS: Temperament, temper, anger?
Mr. PAGE: It's going to be talked about, but as long as he holds his temper
in public, he can weather it.
MATTHEWS: Well, what about that interview with Time magazine this week where
he was all...
Mr. PAGE: Well, that's the thing.
MATTHEWS: ...growling at the guys?
Mr. PAGE: Yeah, not many people have heard about that interview yet.
MATTHEWS: Well, they just did.
Mr. PAGE: But I think they will. Yeah. You know, I think that they will
be.
MATTHEWS: It was described as a prickly interview. Elisabeth, your
experience with this fellow? You've been a--you're a straight reporter with a
major newspaper. You've had a--been on the front line with this guy.
Ms. BUMILLER: Yes. I've been the object of his temper at a point in the
campaign. And he--yeah, of course it's going to be an issue. He is trying
very hard to keep it in line. You can see it a lot of times in the campaign
where he'll get snappy at somebody and then he'll pull back. It's like he
realizes what's happening, so then he apologizes three or four times. But
it's going to be an issue.
MATTHEWS: You once got a little present from him after...(unintelligible).
Mr. FINEMAN: I did. I got a pair of signed boxing gloves from him that have
a proud place in my office, after an on-air battle with him. But that was a
deliberate thing by the Obama campaign there. They'd said, `We'll go on
judgment. He'd use the word judgment before.' That's the first time I
remember temperament and judgment. That's calling McCain down. Remember, I
said at the beginning it was like the Roman Colosseum?
MATTHEWS: Yeah.
Mr. FINEMAN: He's calling him in to the fight, and at the debates the hope
is to have McCain demonstrate that character trait that Obama's talking about
and have a sort of Jack Nicholson moment.
MATTHEWS: Ah. Right.
Mr. FINEMAN: "You can't handle the truth"...
MATTHEWS: Oh, I think it's more like...
Mr. FINEMAN: ...kind of moment.
MATTHEWS: ...the movie "The Gladiator" when...
Mr. FINEMAN: Yeah.
MATTHEWS: ...Russell Crowe says to Joaquin Phoenix, the emperor...
Mr. FINEMAN: Yeah. `Come on down...
MATTHEWS: ...`Come on down in the ring here.'
Mr. FINEMAN: ...in the ring here.' We're going to...(unintelligible).
Ms. O'DONNELL: Yeah! That's great.
MATTHEWS: Thanks to a great roundtable: Norah O'Donnell, Clarence Page,
Elisabeth Bumiller and Howard Fineman.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Sign-off: The Chris Matthews Show
CHRIS MATTHEWS, host:
That's the show this week. Thanks for watching. Happy Labor Day, Jerry
Lewis. And to catch a webcast of our show, go to thechrismatthewsshow.com.
See you next week.
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