The Chris Matthews Show
January 23-24, 2010
Announcer: This is THE CHRIS MATTHEWS SHOW.
CHRIS MATTHEWS, host:
Stay the course? With nine months until the fall elections, will President Obama call full speed ahead or trim his sails? Will he double down on change or reset his course toward full-time job creation? Will his fellow Democrats give him a choice?
Keep on trucking! Republicans say it's time to work together in the center, but will they do any such thing? Won't they just keep saying no and ride this anti-incumbent whirlwind for all it's worth?
And finally, white flight! Polls show that working-class whites have fled from supporting President Obama in droves. Can he lead the country if he can't win them back?
Hi, I'm Chris Matthews. Welcome to the show.
Savannah Guthrie covers the White House for NBC News and co-hosts "The Daily Rundown" on MSNBC. Clarence Page is a Chicago Tribune columnist. Kathleen Parker writes a column for The Washington Post, and David Brooks is a New York Times columnist and an analyst on “The NewsHour."
First up, new senator Scott Brown declared that the uprising in Massachusetts will be catching in the fall's elections around the country.
Senator-elect SCOTT BROWN: (From Tuesday) When there's trouble in Massachusetts, rest assured there's trouble everywhere, and they know it.
MATTHEWS: President Obama told ABC News that he actually has something in common with the guy who just upset his entire apple cart here in Washington.
President BARACK OBAMA: (From ABC News, Wednesday) The same thing that swept Scott Brown into office swept me into office.
MATTHEWS: But the president went on, saying the anger is left over from the Bush years.
Pres. OBAMA: (From ABC News, Wednesday) People are angry and they're frustrated, not just because of what's happened in the last year or two years, but what's happened over the last eight year.
MATTHEWS: But, Savannah, the polls in Massachusetts say that he was the target of the anger, the president.
Ms. SAVANNAH GUTHRIE (NBC White House Correspondent): Well, look, they're trying to put the best face on it and they want to show that they get the message, that they're not totally deaf to what happened in Massachusetts, but their claims that this had nothing to do with health care, nothing to see here, are really belied by the facts. It's true that Scott Brown never ran an ad about health care, but he was signing autographs up there, "41," `I'm the forty-first vote against health care.' So they can't pretend that this has nothing to do with the Obama agenda in Washington.
MATTHEWS: OK. You said that the president made a big mistake coming into office, David, in your column this week. He should've really gone slower. He should've re-established faith in positive government before going for the big health care kind of initiative.
Mr. DAVID BROOKS (Columnist, The New York Times): Yeah. What's the biggest issue of our lifetime? It's that people used to trust government, and the New Deal and the Great Society, now like 17 percent of Americans trust government. And this distrust of government has been building and building and building, and Massachusetts is a phenomenon of that. And so the question before the Democrats is, `Do we listen to the people and say, OK, we're scaling back, or do we say we really believe in our agenda, we don't care what you say, we believe in it so much we're going forward'?And that's the crucial decision, I think.
MATTHEWS: And it seems like it's—they don't trust government to do things for you. It's not just get the roads plowed or something, it's this kind of social program.
Mr. BROOKS: Yeah, they want to trust government. I really think that's what the election of Obama was about. They want to have a government that can do the basics for them. They don't want it to take over their lives, but do the basics, provide some security. And the disillusion now comes from those lost hopes.
MATTHEWS: Do you think, Clarence, that the administration, these smart guys around the president, he especially misread his mandate and said they didn't like Bush, they didn't like Cheney, so they're going to like a real liberal, even leftish kind of government?
Mr. CLARENCE PAGE (Columnist, Chicago Tribune): Yeah.
MATTHEWS: Did you misread it?
Mr. PAGE: I think they did misread it. It—a—the public basically, as David said in his column, moves in waves. It's not a massive shift. Newt Gingrich made that mistake, thinking there was a revolution. Clinton made the mistake early on, didn't even get health care to the floor. Obama's team needed to read the public opinion more closely during the administration, like they did during the campaign. There was a shift going on, it was a lot of disquiet out there. The public hates the sausage-making process, and they got more of it than the—than the Obama timetable had scheduled, especially in those August town hall meetings. And that's where they've got to scale back now. They've got to show that they are more moderate.
MATTHEWS: You surprise me, Clarence.
Mr. PAGE: Well, I surprise people a lot lately. That's why I'm worth...
MATTHEWS: Kathleen...
Mr. PAGE: That's why I'm worth reading and watching, Chris.
MATTHEWS: Kathleen?
Ms. KATHLEEN PARKER (Columnist, The Washington Post): Well, first of all, Barack Obama had one mandate, and that was to not be George W. Bush. And he should've known from the Clintons that anytime you tack left, you go in the hole. You know, he—we—he was elected by all of these former Republicans and independents because they thought he was going to be a centrist leader and he projected that and—on the campaign. So, you know, he's got to come back center if he's going to...
MATTHEWS: But didn't he promise things like health care? Didn't he have to do it?
Ms. PARKER: Yeah, but he didn't—you know, he didn't promise a $2,000—a 2,000-page bill that nobody can comprehend.
MATTHEWS: OK. The captain of his ship this Wednesday night coming up, the State of the Union, he really will be our captain. He has to tell us what the course is going to be.
Ms. GUTHRIE: Right.
MATTHEWS: Is it left? Is it center? Center-left? Where's he going to aim the country next Wednesday night?
Ms. GUTHRIE: Well, where do you put jobs on that spectrum, because that's...
MATTHEWS: Center.
Ms. GUTHRIE: ...what we're going to hear about. We're going to hear about jobs, we're going to hear about the deficit. He wants to convey an image of being serious about the deficit. They know that's what independents are very concerned about. He'll talk about health care, but, look, they have a real conundrum right now. Have you talked to senior aides? They actually do not know how this will end. Can the House pass the Senate bill as is and their big comprehensive bill lives to see another day? Or does it all die and they have to do something piecemeal, which is also hard to do.
MATTHEWS: OK. Great question. Will it help—will Republicans help him go to the middle? Will they join him at the middle?
Mr. BROOKS: No. You know...
MATTHEWS: You're laughing.
Mr. BROOKS: The president came out after—and he talked to George Stephanopoulos, you showed part of the interview, and he said, `I'm looking for common ground. I went up to the Hill and talked to a bunch of Republicans in search of common ground.' There're like little common pebbles, but there's no common ground. So there's just no—there's no there there for a bipartisan approach unless they throw it to the states. If they say, `Health care, we're gridlocked here in Washington, we're going to throw it to the states. Massachusetts, you did what you want; Arizona, you do what you want.' I think that's a plausible way forward. But other than that, I've also become increasingly convinced that if they go forward right now, the chance of getting any health care, significant, is like 20 percent. It's...
MATTHEWS: Anything.
Mr. PAGE: I slightly disagree.
Mr. BROOKS: The gridlock, the chaos on the Hill is unimaginable right now.
Mr. PAGE: OK, well, I think that he's got to make the effort. I think you call the Republicans' bluff. `OK, you guys want to confer, you've got ideas, let's talk about it.' And then if they smack you down, then you can say, `Hey, we tried.' You know, I think that was where...
MATTHEWS: So you would say offer something more than the big thing he's offered on health care.
Mr. PAGE: Yeah.
MATTHEWS: And see if they say yes or no.
Mr. PAGE: I think there is some common ground.
MATTHEWS: OK.
Mr. PAGE: There—I mean, there's at least half a dozen bills...
Ms. PARKER: Well, there is the...
MATTHEWS: OK.
Mr. PAGE: ...that Republicans proposed that were thrown aside.
MATTHEWS: There's a third party.
Mr. PAGE: Pick them up again.
MATTHEWS: OK.
Mr. PAGE: Let's talk about it.
MATTHEWS: There's a new party...
Ms. PARKER: Well, true, and he can start dating, you know, the—Senator Snowe in earnest. I mean, there are people...
MATTHEWS: Hm.
Mr. PAGE: You don't think that's happening?
MATTHEWS: Let's talk about something really...
Ms. PARKER: Not now, but they left her out of some important meetings.
Mr. PAGE: Yeah, right.
Ms. PARKER: Sorry.
MATTHEWS: Something big happened in Massachusetts. That truck, that symbolism of somebody who's not establishment.
Ms. PARKER: Yeah.
MATTHEWS: The tea party people really take credit for that victory in Massachusetts. How will the tea party movement—and I think it's a movement—how will that lead the country in a different direction than good old Republican leadership thinking in Washington?
Ms. PARKER: Well, it's kind of interesting because the people I talk to on the Hill, Republicans behind the scenes, sort of don't kind of know who these tea party people are. It really is sort of separate from establishment Washington.
Mr. PAGE: You're going to have a big problem if you try to speak of the tea party movement as though it's a solid movement.
Ms. PARKER: Right.
Ms. GUTHRIE: Right. Yeah.
Mr. PAGE: It's not organized. That's part of the beauty of it. This is one of those—it reminds me of that book about the spider vs. the starfish. This is—this is a lot of pieces out there. You can cut off one and each one's going to start something new.
MATTHEWS: OK. We have an expert on this kind of sociological phenomenon here.
Mr. PAGE: Yes.
MATTHEWS: David Brooks, who are they?
Mr. BROOKS: Yes.
MATTHEWS: I mean, I think I know, but you're the expert.
Mr. BROOKS: Well...
MATTHEWS: Sociologically, they don't seem to be rank-and-file Republican types. They don't wear the badge of Republican. Who are they?
Mr. BROOKS: Yeah, if I had to generalize, it used to be in this country people of high school degrees lived the same kind of lives as people with college degrees. That's no longer true. Divorce rates, attitudes towards society, attitudes towards government, it's very different. College degree, noncollege degree.
MATTHEWS: Who gets the most divorces?
Mr. BROOKS: High school grads.
MATTHEWS: Yeah.
Mr. BROOKS: Twice as many as college grads. So I think they're living in a different America.
Ms. PARKER: Mm-hmm.
Mr. BROOKS: And they look at the people who are running them, most of them are college degrees, Harvard law, on both sides.
Ms. PARKER: Right.
Mr. BROOKS: And they say, `That's not me. That's not my life.'
MATTHEWS: Yeah.
Mr. BROOKS: `And they're not listening to me.'
Ms. PARKER: Right.
Mr. BROOKS: And so I think that's part of the...(unintelligible).
MATTHEWS: So a guy—a guy with a law degree, whose kids go to—getting advanced degrees, even by driving a truck, he was able to side with them.
Mr. BROOKS: Yeah, it's a signal. And, you know, Tom Wolfe had this—had this rule of the high school opposite. Who do you vote for in politics? Well, in high school you find out who your opposite is and you vote against those bastards.
Ms. PARKER: Yeah.
Mr. BROOKS: And so it's...
MATTHEWS: I love this stuff.
Mr. BROOKS: So if you hate the college—if the—if you hate the football players, all through life you're going to vote against the football players.
Ms. PARKER: Well...
MATTHEWS: Exactly.
Mr. BROOKS: If you hate the art people, you'll vote against the art people.
Mr. PAGE: There's a lot of truth to that.
MATTHEWS: (Unintelligible)
Mr. PAGE: Yeah.
Ms. PARKER: And their perception that elite Washington and everybody in Washington is considered elitist and elite. Their perception that they aren't—that they don't get them is not off.
MATTHEWS: We put it to The Matthews Meter, 12 of our regulars, can the Democrats neutralize this "throw the bums out" attitude in time for these big November elections? Whoa! Eight say no, they can't do it in time for the midterms; four say yes. All three of you are in the meter, all three of you say, `Too late, baby.' Clarence?
Mr. PAGE: Well, they—it can have an impact, but no, they—this horse is heading out of the stable already, and both historical trends and current trends, we're going to see Democrats who are going to take losses. All they can do right now, I think, is cut those losses as much as they possibly can try.
MATTHEWS: Is there any chance the president can turn this around with this big attack this week on the banks and going after the courts when the corporate money in politics? Can he become part of this populist anger? Is it too late to be on the outside?
Ms. GUTHRIE: Well, it does seem he's a little late to it, so it feels a little contrived, but then again, this is the low-hanging fruit that's out there. But in terms—you—I'm not on your Matthews Meter...
MATTHEWS: The bad guys on Wall Street?
Ms. GUTHRIE: ...but I would say it's hard for Democrats to turn it around, and that is because unemployment is not expected to go back down to single digits by the end of next year, it's—that's a killer.
MATTHEWS: But in the short term, is his best bet to go after the big banks and the rich guys on Wall Street? Is that...
Ms. GUTHRIE: I think that's the strategy they are pursuing, no question about it.
Mr. BROOKS: Is that specific to him, Mr. Harvard Law School? He's not an authentic Huey Long, and I don't think you can fake it in politics. Mitt Romney tried; you just can't fake it.
Ms. PARKER: Right.
Mr. BROOKS: And so I would advise him not to try to fake it.
MATTHEWS: OK. Great. Will he go to the center politically between now and the elections?
Ms. GUTHRIE: I think so.
Mr. PAGE: Yes, I think he will.
Mr. PARKER: I think he will, yes.
Mr. BROOKS: He'll go to jobs, which is a good issue.
Mr. PAGE: Right.
Ms. PARKER: Jobs.
Mr. PAGE: Right.
MATTHEWS: OK. Before we break, in losing to Scott Brown, it seemed like Martha Coakley made every campaign mistake in the book. She might've even made enough mistakes to fill a sequel, but her worst mistake had to be the one that told regular people that she lived in a different universe. She stumbled into an amazing unforced error not even knowing Red Sox hero Curt Schilling, a guy worshiped in Boston. Listen to her response when a radio host said Schilling was working for Scott Brown, the Republican.
(Beginning of clip from WBZ Newsradio, Boston)
Unidentified Radio Host: Scott Brown has Curt Schilling, OK.
Ms. MARTHA COAKLEY: And another Yankee fan.
Radio Host: Schilling?
Ms. COAKLEY: Yes.
(End of clip)
Mr. PAGE: Hm.
MATTHEWS: Schilling himself drove it home.
Mr. CURT SCHILLING: (From WBZ Newsradio, Boston) For me, it just confirmed the things I had—I had read up and heard about her, which was that she is very out of touch with her constituents.
MATTHEWS: Martha Coakley wasn't the first big candidate to blow a sports reference. In fact, Ted Kennedy did it back in '98 when he was comparing Clinton and Gore to that year's baseball heroes.
(Beginning of clip from September 17, 1998)
Senator TED KENNEDY: It is a special pleasure for me to introduce our two home run kings for working families in America, Mike McGwire and Sammy Sooser of the White House.
Vice President AL GORE: Thank you very much. Thank you. You can tell that Ted is a rabid Red Sox fan, if you catch my drift.
(End of clip)
MATTHEWS: Then listen to Bob Dole in 1996 showing he might've been livin’ in the past.
Mr. BOB DOLE: (From September 18, 1996) I'm going to be like a Nomo, I'm going to pitch a no-hitter from now to November 5. The Brooklyn Dodgers had a no-hitter last night and I'm going to follow what Nomo did, and we're going to
wipe them out between now and November 5.
MATTHEWS: That was in 1996. The Dodgers left Brooklyn in 1957. Not a good thing in a presidential race in which Dole's age was an issue.
And here was John Kerry in the '04 race blowing the name of the celebrated, almost holy home field of the Green Bay Packers, Lambeau Field.
Senator JOHN KERRY: (From August 25, 2004) In deference to Lambert Field and Vince, whom I've quoted a few times, I've got to go to this Packer fan here.
MATTHEWS: And, boy, did W. leap on that when he campaigned in Wisconsin a week later.
President GEORGE W. BUSH: (From September 3, 2004) It's traditional when politicians come to your state that they talk about the Packers, and I understand my opponent did it the other day and he even mentioned the legendary stadium in Green Bay. Listen, I've got some advice for him. If someone offers you a cheese head, don't say you want some wine. Just put it on your head and take a seat at Lambeau Field.
MATTHEWS: When we come back, why do working class-whites disproportionately disapprove of Barack Obama, far more than other presidents at this point in their terms? Can Obama regain his political bearings without them? Plus scoops and predictions right out of the notebooks of these top reporters.
We'll be right back.
(Announcements)
MATTHEWS: Welcome back. Barack Obama's down in the polls, and a huge reason for that: He has slipped dramatically among whites. Here are a couple of ways of looking at it. First, here's a chart from The New York Times this week. The graph shows the level of support among whites for all of our recent presidents at the end of their first year in office. In the graph, gold represents approval by whites, the blue bars show disapproval among whites. Barack Obama's ratings with whites are far worse than other presidents at the same point in their terms. And let's look at how working-class whites have
changed their view of Barack Obama since his inauguration. Negative feelings about Obama personally among working-class whites have risen from 23 percent a year ago to 42 percent, almost doubling. Today, another index, job approval: 54 percent of working class whites approved of the president's handling of his job a year ago, and that is down now to 39 percent.
David, what's it about?
Mr. BROOKS: Yeah, I don't think it's simply racism because they were for him in inauguration time and they haven't simply become racist since then. So I guess I think it's policy, that what they were looking for from Obama was a set of policy, deliverables, a set of associations. `He's like me, he knows me,' and they've become disappointed like that. To me the interesting thing, actually, is African-Americans still remain very—they approve of Barack Obama. Latinos, also. And so the Latino numbers have barely moved. And so that's a sign of some deeper sense of affiliation that's not simply policy-based. But for a lot of the white working class, it's more policy-based and then, therefore, disappointing.
Mr. PAGE: Hm.
MATTHEWS: Do you think it's ethnic or it's elitism? Is it the sense that he's—that he's a little too polished, a little too above the sweat of the poor, if you will?
Mr. PAGE: I think that's—I think that's part of it. Part of it is personal connection. I think, you know, blacks and Latinos have obvious reasons to connect with him on that kind of personal level. Among white males in particular, there—they had to be won over late.
MATTHEWS: Mm-hmm.
Mr. PAGE: And they were won over at a time when John McCain showed himself not to be as effective at dealing with the economic crisis that was appearing. Also, there was a sense about—around Sarah Palin, competence, readiness for office...
MATTHEWS: Do you think the Gates thing, where he stepped into that case up in Cambridge with the cop and the professor, hurt him in that regard?
Mr. PAGE: That was one of those episodes where he came down on the wrong side, as far as a lot of law and order...
MATTHEWS: Politically, yeah.
Mr. PAGE: ...white voters are concerned. That whole rap about Obama appearing to be too aloof, too removed. Even he admitted that to a degree during his interview with George Stephanopoulos.
MATTHEWS: Yeah.
Ms. PARKER: Yeah.
MATTHEWS: Savannah, reporting from the White House, do they talk about this kind of thing over there, the staff people?
Ms. GUTHRIE: No, and I think they dispute the premise. I think another way you could look at this...
MATTHEWS: Well, the numbers, though.
Ms. GUTHRIE: ...through the prism of race. You could also look at it as a loss of independents. I mean, other than the Gates episode, I can't think of another episode where Obama reached out to get into a racially-tinged subject.
MATTHEWS: Yeah.
Ms. GUTHRIE: In fact, he kind of overtly avoids it.
MATTHEWS: I think so.
Ms. PARKER: Well, I don't know...
Ms. GUTHRIE: And this is a way to look at—oh, this is the loss of independents driven by policy, as David said.
Ms. PARKER: But also, well, indeed, the working-class whites are a lot of people who are out of jobs right now.
Mr. PAGE: Hm.
Ms. PARKER: But also, whites are—independents are predominantly white. So it's—where—I don't know whether that would be a founding factor in this particular study, whether the whites shifting away are the—also the independents shifting away.
Mr. PAGE: Yeah.
Ms. GUTHRIE: And 71 percent of whites in our poll said they personally liked Obama.
Mr. PAGE: Mm-hmm.
MATTHEWS: Do you think it's a tougher attitude by white voters towards black politicians? Well, they'll give them a shot, give her a shot, but then after—they're very quick to judge them?
Mr. PAGE: It's not as bad as it was in the Harold Washington days in 1980s, for example.
MATTHEWS: Or Carol Moseley Braun.
Mr. PAGE: Or when Mayor Street in Philadelphia, or various others in our country.
MATTHEWS: Where they turn on them very quickly after a try-out.
Mr. PAGE: Yeah, I think—look, I think, you know, that's part—that's part of the game, though, whether it's race or some other incident. Like David said, you know, white voters came over to Obama in much greater numbers than I expected, a lot of other people expected. So I don't think the race factor is that big overtly. However, at the same time, there is that, you know, the town hall episodes...
MATTHEWS: Mm-hmm.
Mr. PAGE: ...the tea party movement. There is a lot of tribalism involved there.
MATTHEWS: Right.
Mr. PAGE: Not overwhelming.
MATTHEWS: We'll see.
Mr. PAGE: But it's there. You could see the signs and that sort of thing there.
MATTHEWS: OK. Final question. If we get the unemployment rate down to 7 percent like Reagan did back in '84, will he turn this part of the country around, the white working class, the independents, whatever you call them?
Ms. GUTHRIE: Oh, if he can produce jobs, I think he'll have a whole bunch of the country with him.
MATTHEWS: Can he turn it around?
Mr. PAGE: I think he...
MATTHEWS: With jobs?
Mr. PAGE: Well, yeah. You bring jobs back, you can turn it around. I wouldn't hang everything on that.
MATTHEWS: That's a pretty hard standard these days.
Mr. PAGE: Yeah. That's right.
MATTHEWS: Kathleen?
Ms. PARKER: I think that is the whole argument, whether he can bring jobs back. And if he does, he's—everybody's in love again.
Mr. BROOKS: Yeah. I actually disagree with Kathleen, unusually. I think it's partly jobs, but it's partly Washington. They don't trust Washington. It's centralizing power that has turned people off, along with unemployment.
MATTHEWS: So Clinton would have the same problem.
Mr. BROOKS: Yes.
MATTHEWS: OK. When we come back, scoops and predictions right out of the notebooks of these top reporters. TELL ME SOMETHING I DON'T KNOW. We'll be right back.
Ms. PARKER: I agree with you.
(Announcements)
MATTHEWS: Welcome back.
Savannah, tell me something I don't know.
Ms. GUTHRIE: When Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner had dinner with bank executives this week, people in the room were surprised the bank executives didn't raise a bigger fuss about that bank tax. They don't love it, but they're not fighting it tooth and nail because if that's the way to get TARP behind them, they're happy about that.
MATTHEWS: Clarence?
Mr. PAGE: That big convention that Kathleen made reference to earlier coming up in Nashville's already causing a big split in the—in the movement, Tea Party Nation. It's causing a split within the movement because it's a for-profit venture. They say the money's going to be poured back. Sarah Palin's there and she says her money's going to go to contributions.
MATTHEWS: Ah.
Mr. PAGE: But she's got to do that a thousand or 2,000 at a time.
MATTHEWS: Corruption creeps in.
Mr. PAGE: Yeah. There's countermovements forming already.
MATTHEWS: OK. Kathleen?
Ms. PARKER: There's still a lot of talk about Democrats switching over, changing parties.
MATTHEWS: You were right the first time about this.
Mr. BROOKS: Mm-hmm.
Ms. PARKER: Yes, I was.
MATTHEWS: You knew that.
Ms. PARKER: Wasn't I?
MATTHEWS: Who else is switching?
Ms. PARKER: I'm still right. Well, I know of one governor who's very close.
MATTHEWS: Who's that?
Ms. PARKER: I can't tell you. I know, it's no fun, but I can't tell you. I'm sorry.
Mr. BROOKS: On Thursday, House Democrats had a big meeting. Jean Taylor from Mississippi gets up and says, `After Katrina, I had to go to the beaches and I had to go tell people, "Your house is gone." I tell my constituents, "Your house is gone, your house is gone, your house is gone. Now I'm telling you, Madame Speaker, your House is gone."'
MATTHEWS: Oh.
Mr. BROOKS: And he was talking about health care. And that was the dramatic speech of that meeting.
MATTHEWS: Did he mean the house that she—that she'll be out of office, out of leadership?
Mr. BROOKS: No, he meant health care bill.
MATTHEWS: Oh. OK.
When we come back, the BIG QUESTION of the week. Scott Brown said he won on terrorism. Does that show Republicans they're hoping to win on that in the fall? Be right back.
(Announcements)
MATTHEWS: Welcome back. Scott Brown up in Massachusetts ran against health care, but said this Tuesday night.
Sen.-elect SCOTT BROWN: (From Tuesday) The message we need to send in dealing with terrorists: Our tax dollars—our tax dollars should pay for weapons to stop them and not lawyers to defend them.
MATTHEWS: And when he appeared the next morning on the "Today" show, notice the order in which he listed the issues.
Sen.-elect BROWN: Terror and taxes and the health care plan.
MATTHEWS: Our BIG QUESTION this week: Is this a tip-off the Republicans are going to—are going back to the Bush-Cheney playbook of 2002 and hope to gain major traction against Democrats on this issue of fighting terrorism?
Savannah?
Ms. GUTHRIE: I think that this is a weak spot for Obama, and our poll bore that out, that people don't feel that terrorists, accused terrorists should have legal rights. And so in some ways Obama is out of the mainstream on that issue. But they approve of how he's handling terrorism. So there's a disconnect within that.
MATTHEWS: Clarence?
Mr. PAGE: When you're in trouble, go back to the old reliables. For Republicans right now, taxes and terror are still strong issues for them.
MATTHEWS: Kathleen? Terror's a big issue for them?
Ms. PARKER: I think that—yeah, I think this is a huge issue and you know, most Americans, certainly on the right, disapprove strongly of Obama endorsing—this bringing, you know, treating these people are common criminals rather than terrorists. That's a huge, huge issue for them.
MATTHEWS: David Brooks?
Mr. BROOKS: Yeah, just to bounce back to you. You're the one who says the Republicans are traditionally the daddy party and Republican—and the Democrats are the mommy party. I think Obama's done a pretty good job on terror overall, but it's tough to change those old stereotypes.
MATTHEWS: OK. Thanks to a great roundtable: Savannah Guthrie, Clarence Page, Kathleen Parker and David Brooks.
That's the show. Thanks for watching. See you here next week.
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